AN INTERVIEW WITH AN EQ EXPERT ABOUT AUTISM AND MALE INTELLIGENCE by Nancy Fenn
Did you read the article in Newsweek about boys, autism, and
girls? Autism, they say is an extreme form of male
intelligence. It is diagnosed much more frequently in males.
At the same time, "classic autism is a devastating
neurological disorder."
We decided to interview Susan Dunn, MA Clinical Psychology,
an Emotional Intelligence expert, to find out more about
this.
NF: I read the “Newsweek” article on autism, boys and girls,
and have some questions for The EQ Coach because I think
this has to do with Emotional Intelligence.
SUSAN: I read the article too. It is sad, on the personal
level, and perhaps instructive on the theoretical scientific
level.
NF: Do you think it’s true – that autism is an extreme form
of male intelligence?
SUSAN: First of all let me say what I think the author of
the book, “The Essential Difference: The Truth About the
Male and Female Brain,”
((http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738208442/susandunnmome
-20
) by Cambridge University psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen,
was trying to get at. Autism is a serious and disabling
condition we hardly understand, as is it’s next of kin,
Asperger’s Syndrome
(http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html ).
In either case, the person is unable to read the social cues
that allow us to manage ourselves, others, and our lives,
i.e., to live with emotional intelligence. They are, in the
vernacular, “clueless.” They have a narrow focus on things ,
not people.
I understand hundreds of parents of autistic children have
written in, some in defense of this article, some in
protest. I certainly don’t mean to make light of autism and
I don't think Baron-Coehn did either. It isn’t something
just “weird” or “quirky,” it’s serious. He does say this is
his scientific theory, and theories are meant to be
disproven.
NF: Do you see a connection between the two? Male
‘intelligence’ and autism?
SUSAN: Yes, I do. It’s like taking something to the extreme
to prove a point. Or, trying to figure out a concept by
laying it out on a continuum. Emotional Intelligence
research confirms that men are generally lower in Empathy,
but higher in Stress Tolerance and Self Regard than women.
There are “statistically significant” differences validated
by research, using the Bar-on EQ-I, and emotional
intelligence assessment.
NF: What do you mean ‘continuum’?
SUSAN: Well that there are varying degrees of things,
starting with practically none, and going along until you
have way too much. At some point we can label anything
“pathologic,” for instance too little Empathy and you have
autism, too much Empathy and you may be losing your
boundaries and can't focus. Too much Empathy and you’re too
overwhelmed by the forcefield of emotions to focus and
function rationally and analytically, to hold your self
regard and tolerate stress. Any strength mismanaged, or in
excess, can become a weakness.
NF: Can you give us an example?
SUSAN: Well, they quote the teenage boy with autism as
saying, “I’m going to unbutton your outfit,” when he’s
merely offering to take her jacket. I think of the man who
walked up to my client in an after-hours spot and said,
“Hey, you have really beautiful breasts.” The degree of
inappropriateness/offensiveness is about the same, wouldn’t
you say? However, I’ve related this anecdote to some men
who've said, “I don’t get why someone would be offended.
That’s a compliment.”
NF: So someone like that is lacking in Empathy, an Emotional
Intelligence competency?
SUSAN: Well, that among other things.
But taken in terms of Emotional Intelligence, the person is
not able to read those fast-moving, rapidly-changing
unsystemizable social cues that allow us to navigate the
landmines of relationships at work and at home. They say and
do things that are inappropriate and this can be as narrow
as “something that’s considered inappropriate by the person
you were speaking to”.
NF: Such as?
SUSAN: Well say you tell me something that offends me, but
it’s in a business meeting and I don’t want to cause a row.
I do narrow my eyes to slits, and cross my arms in front of
me, and bounce my leg. Why? I’m mad as hell at what you
said. I’m going to let it pass, but you’re sure as heck not
going to get my business, my cooperation or my friendship.
Someone who’s autistic, or lacking in Empathy, may hear me
say, “Alright, that’s fine,” and think all is well, missing
entirely that my posture, expression and gestures indicate
I’m furious.
NF: So can someone learn Empathy?
SUSAN: I do teach folks Emotional Intelligence skills, and
have helped both men and women develop their Empathy.
NF: Why is it so hard to learn?
SUSAN: Because autism is systemized thinking about things,
and social relating isn’t. Think of this sentence for
instance. Here are the literal words: “I didn’t say you
stole the documents.” Now say it, emphasizing the first
word, then the second and so forth.
Whichever word you emphasize, the meaning, the connotation
is entirely different, although the words remain the same.
Someone low in Empathy will be relying on the literal
meaning of the words, missing the tone and emphasis.
NF: Are a lot of people like this?
SUSAN: Well, I don’t know the figures, but my First Rule of
Communication is to assume I’ve been misunderstood. I
witness people misreading cues all the time. It’s for sure
we can always work on them.
I'm thinking of the engineer I once worked with who said,
"People are just static." I was like his interpreter of what
had just gone on. He wasn't really that interested, just
enough to get what he needed to make his machine.
Also what offends one person might not offend another, so
it’s always a bit of a guessing game. You have to pull on
past experience and general knowledge, i.e., it’s likely
this woman won’t want to be called “a chick.” We learn this
by trial and error, and also vicariously, by watching other
people. It’s the ability to observe the results that
someone who lacks Empathy is lacking.
NF: In the article, they say there’s no extreme form of
female intelligence. How did that strike you?
SUSAN: If it isn't a penis, it's nothing at all?
To go with his thesis, if autism is an extension of men’s
‘intelligence, which he defines as narrow focus and
systemizing, what's the extension of female 'intelligence,'
which he defines as Empathy? Empathy to the point where it
makes the person dysfunctional in ordinary life. How about
Borderline, where the Empathy doesn’t have any boundaries? I
think there are men who would say “women are like that;"
that’s what it’s like to be “feminine.” They find it sexy.
In a brief informal survey, I found a couple of men who
agreed with that immediately. Borderlines are at the mercy
of their emotions, pay attention to cues that are not
appropriate to conventional settings, appear to "mind read"
(though it's sensing feelings), and lack boundaries. This,
of course, would make you less able to tolerate stress. And
trying to be everything to everybody leaves your Self Regard
vulnerable.
NF: Can you teach the rules of Empathy?
SUSAN: No, there aren’t any, but barring neurological
damage, Empathy can be learned. Consider, for instance, if
I tell you to always smile when you meet someone, and hold
out your hand to shake their hand. Would this work if you
wandered into Cabrini-Green? Would it work in Mexico, D.F.,
where they’ll be trying to hug you, or in Alaska where they
may want to rub noses with you? What you have to learn is to
read the cues. Those you can have better luck with, i.e.,
when someone crosses their arms in front of their body when
they’re talking to you, and looks away, it means they’re mad
at something you said. Stop doing it.
People low in Empathy can be helped by practicing reading
nonverbal expressions, postures and gestures. In a sense, we
all learn this as kids.
I remember when one of my young friends beheld his first
Black person. “It’s a CHOCOLATE MAN,” he yelled, at the top
of his voice, he was so excited at his discovery. How do any
of us learn what’s culturally acceptable as we age?
NF: What are you really learning in Emotional Intelligence
then?
SUSAN: Well, it’s limbic learning. And that takes a lot of
repetition and time because it means learning new habits and
giving up old ones. We get in touch with the emotional
information we need to guide our decisions and behavior.
When we feel angry, or sense the other person is, this is
“correcting information.” The key is – how do you tell when
you or someone else is angry? Emotional Intelligence starts
with self-awareness. Without it, there can be no Emotional
Intelligence. We learn to read the emotion, and then we
learn what's appropriate or acceptable to do with it. And we
start by knowing how this works within ourselves, i.e., when
I get angry my face gets hot, my palms get sweaty …
NF: Do you think it would be better to be low in Empathy, or
low in the ability to systematize?
SUSAN: Wrong question. Emotional Intelligence is never
“either/or.” The point is to get to know all your brains –
reptilian, limbic and neocortex (which has two hemispheres),
develop self-awareness, acquire lots of different
competencies, and exercise choices as to how you respond.
Some things require analytical thinking for instance, while
others require intuition or gut feeling, and some, of
course, require both. EQ isn’t saying emotions are “better,”
it’s saying we need both analytical thinking and emotional
processing, and the wisdom to know which to go with when.
It’s the place where thinking and emotions interface.
NF: Do you think men are lower in Empathy?
SUSAN: One of the most Empathic people I know is a man. As
Disraeli said, “There are three kinds of lies -- lies,
damned lies and statistics. Just because “most men” are low
in Empathy, doesn’t mean you are, or he is, or that any
given women is higher in it than any given male. It means
whatever measure they used (test, assessment), on that
particular one, more men score lower on Empathy than women
do, at a statistically significant level. The point is, if
you're low in Empathy and it's correctable, get some EQ
coaching.
NF: Any closing comments?
SUSAN: Barring serious conditions such as autism and
Asperger’s Syndrome, we can improve our Emotional
Intelligence competencies. They can be learned.
Check out Susan’s website, www.susandunn.cc , for more
resources and the names of certified EQ coaches. Take The
EQ Foundation CourseŠ to start learning today.
Nancy R. Fenn is the IntrovertZCoach. Her mission in
life is raising consciousness about introversion as a
legitimate personality style. Visit Nancy on the web
at http://www.theintrovertzcoach for more resources and
support.
More articles on EMOTIONAL-INTELLIGENCE
An Interview with an EQ Expert about Autism and Male Intelligence
Developing Your Child's Emotional Intelligence
Team Learning And Emotional Intelligence
How Do You Know What Your EQ (Emotional Intelligence) Is?
How to Increase Your Child's Emotional Intelligence?
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